Subcommittee proposes dropping South Bypass from road priority list

Transportation and Trails Subcommittee creates new list of road projects


By Karen Brainard

The proposed Southern Traffic Bypass will not be on the revised road improvement priority list that will be presented to the Ramona Community Planning Group at its April 3 meeting.

A crowd of residents applaud after a speaker tells the Transportation and Trails Subcommittee why he believes the proposed South Bypass should not be built. Sentinel photo/Karen Brainard

That was welcome news to the approximately 50 residents who attended the planning group’s Transportation and Trails Subcommittee meeting March 24 to show their opposition to the multi-phase South Bypass, which is on the planning group’s 2009 Top 10 priority list.

Several residents explained why they believe an alternate route for drivers to get from the west end of town to the east end by bypassing Main Street, via Dye Road, Warnock Drive and Keyes Road to state Route 78, should not be built.

“Basically one of the reasons the South Bypass was suggested over 30 years ago was because some thought there was too much congestion on Main Street,” said Joe Minervini.

“What about the impact the South Bypass will have on hundreds and hundreds of homes along the route? What about the impact the bypass will have on hundreds of businesses up and down Main Street? Let’s focus on fixing Main Street and not the South Bypass,” he said, suggesting Main be widened to two lanes where only one lane in each direction exists.

Lynn Hopewell said, “It’s inconceivable to me that the county would go and destroy so many people’s properties, maybe even split it in half, and then what do you have? Half of your property’s on one side of the road and half of your property’s on the other side of the road.”

About seven residents spoke, some saying the bypass would destroy rural areas of Ramona.

Resident Lynn Hopewell talks about how the South Bypass would impact property owners along the proposed route. Sentinel photo/Karen Brainard

Subcommittee chair Carl Hickman noted that the priority list is for county-owned  and maintained roads.

Main Street is a state highway and therefore operated by Caltrans, he said. As for widening it, Hickman said, “There are many, many complicated issues involved with that task. One of the major issues that we are all aware of are the colonnade eucalyptus trees. We would probably get the same amount of people in this room as we have tonight if we brought in for discussion cutting down those trees.”

Studies have shown that businesses do not lose money when heavy traffic is removed from downtown areas, said Hickman.

“Studies have shown that when you make the community walkable, that people will come to the community and spend their money there when they can safely walk the community, cross the streets,” he said.

In considering projects, Hickman said safety had to be considered along with mobility, the projects would not be numbered in any priority, and just because a project is on the list does not mean it will get done. Hickman said he was in favor of keeping any projects in which the county has already invested money.

One by one, the nine subcommittee members voted on each project of the 2009 list to decide which ones should be recommended for the new list.

Not making the new list, by a 5-4 vote, was the Dye Road Extension, known as the center portion of the South Bypass. The project would extend Dye Road to Warnock Drive and San Vicente Road, and smooth out the 90-degree turns. Some members expressed concerns that speed would then increase. Voting to remove it from the list were  Cheryl Wegner, Jim Cooper, John and Arvie Degenfelder, and Karen Carlson.Hickman, Scotty Ensign, Bob Hailey and Dawn Perfect voted to keep it on the list.

The subcommittee unanimously voted to eliminate the third phase of the South Bypass, from Warnock Drive to Keyes Road to Route 78 from the list.

Transportation and Trails Subcommittee Chair Carl Hickman tells what considerations should be given when compiling a new road improvement project priority list. Seated next to Hickman is T&T member Cheryl Wegner. Sentinel photo/Karen Brainard

The first phase of the bypass, from SR-67/Mussey Grade to Dye Road only garnered support from Hickman and Ensign.

“So all the roads on the so-called Southern Bypass died,” said Hickman to applause from the crowd.

Because some projects are already under way with the county, and there are other projects that members want to see the county pursue with Caltrans, Hickman proposed the subcommittee create three lists (see sidebar).

The subcommittee came up with several new improvement projects, such as installing sidewalks near schools for safety, and paving dirt sections of some residential streets.

With only nine items listed, Hickman noted that the planning group can add another project or number them differently.

The planning group will consider the lists when it meets at 7 p.m., Thursday, April 3, in the Ramona Library Community Room, 1275 Main St. Members of the public can speak on items by filling out a speaker slip at the beginning of the meeting.

Proposed lists of capital improvement project priorities

Transportation and Trails Subcommittee recommendations for Ramona Community Planning Group consideration on April 3

Projects under way or in various stages of development — county shall proceed as planned:

1. San Vicente Road from Warnock Drive to Wildcat Canyon Road (No. 3 and 8 on 2009 list).

2. Ramona Street from Boundary Avenue to Warnock Drive, known as Ramona Street Extension (No. 6 on 2009 list).

3. Traffic signal for intersection of 10th and H streets (scheduled to be completed in third quarter this year).

4. Slope and drainage improvements for Mussey Grade Road.

5. Bridge over Santa Maria Creek on 13th Street.

6. 13th Street road improvement from Main to Walnut streets (No. 4 on 2009 list).

Projects important to the community that shall be developed by the county in the future:

1. San Vicente Road road improvement from Wildcat Canyon Road to San Diego Country Estates limit line  (No. 7 on 2009 list).

2. Sidewalk and pathway on east side of Ramona Street from Boundary Avenue to Hanson Lane.

3. Sidewalk and pathway on south side of Hanson Lane from Ramona Street to San Vicente Road.

4. Improvement of alleyway, from Fifth to 11th streets.

5. Road improvement from Boundary Avenue to Etcheverry Street, to align with Equestrian Trail Road.

6. Improve Etcheverry Street from Hunter Street to SR-67.

7. Improve Kelly Avenue from Pala to Etcheverry streets.

8. Creelman Lane improvement from San Vicente Road to Keyes Road.

9. Improve Vermont Street from Pala to Etcheverry streets.

Projects important to the community that shall require the county to coordinate with Caltrans:

1. SR-67/Highland Valley/Dye Road intersection.

2. SR-67 and 14th Street intersection.

3. SR-67 and Montecito Road intersection.

Related posts:

  1. Review Road Priority Project list
  2. San Vicente Road drainage on Prop. 1B projects list
  3. Meeting targets proposed southern bypass
  4. Barnett playground added to PLDO priority list
  5. Planners give nod to Montecito Ranch road changes

Short URL: http://www.ramonasentinel.com/?p=32380

Posted by Staff on Mar 30 2014. Filed under Backcountry, Featured Story, Government, News, Ramona. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

41 Comments for “Subcommittee proposes dropping South Bypass from road priority list”

  1. Guest

    Hopefully this all falls on deaf ears.

  2. Guest

    So the message here is the wishes of 50 extremely vocal residents trumps the needs of the community as a whole. Shame on the five "representatives" on the subcommittee. Rest assured, you will get your 50 votes next election cycle – lets just hope that the remaining 39,950 in Ramona are paying attention and throw you out of office. We can only hope that the RCPG has enough sense to ignore the subcommittees recommendations and move forward with the best interest of the COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE.

    There has been much talk over the years of Ramona incorporating. If the process here, by which a vocal minority can shout down a project that is so obviously needed, is indicative of how Ramona would govern itself, incorporation would spell doom for us. Small town politics works well for the small minded. The last thing we need is another governmental structure that acts on behalf of the whining and boisterous few to the detriment of so many.

    • Ramona Resident

      I'm curious why you think the majority of Ramona are in favor of this boondoggle? Nobody who has an interest in a thriving main street wants it, nobody who pays taxes wants it, nobody who drives the 78 wants it – I mean surely the main purpose of a bypass is to improve traffic speeds across a given distance, which this bypass would utterly fail to do.

      I guess if you work for the county or a contractor making roads you would want it, or perhaps you're one of the mouth breathers who thinks they're above walking to a proper crossing on Main Street and have the right to disrupt traffic however they wish?

      • Mouthbreather

        Speak for yourself.

      • Guest

        One need only look at the responses when this subject comes up. The comments and thumbs up and down from every article on this subject makes it pretty clear. There are but a handful of extremely vocal residents who are opposed to the southern bypass. There is not a shred of evidence to support the contention that the bypass would hurt Main Street business – if there is, I'd like to see it. I believe approximately 1/3 of Ramona's population lives in SDCE and a southern bypass route would alleviate a significant amount of traffic congestion coming into town and would make the commute for anybody living in SDCE easier. Finally, I do not work for the county or a contractor. I am not one of your "mouth breathers" and like just about every other Ramona resident, I don't recall having ever walked across Main Street. I don't even live in SDCE so the bypass doesn't benefit me personally. Based on common sense and logic I happen to believe it is in the best interest of the community.

        • Joe Minervini

          When ever a business is looking for a new site, the first thing they check is the traffic count. What part of the following formula do you not understand:
          TRAFFIC COUNT = BUSINESS.

          • Guest

            Trust me, Joe, I know business. I can promise you I have forgotten more about business than you ever have ever known. I also know enough to know that traffic count does not always = business. There are a number of other factors that go into it. My wife and I have driven by those Main Street stores and have never stopped in the vast majority of them. Same thing for just about everybody I know, most of whom have lived in Ramona for 35+ years. I also know that traffic is the #1 issue for homeowners in Ramona and the current infrastructure is insufficient to support our existing residences, let alone the growth planned for the next few years.

            Just because you're upset that you bought a house along the proposed bypass route doesn't mean you have to be condescending.

          • Mike

            Joe there are many factors which equate to a thriving business and it is asinine of you to argue that traffic count alone is the only ingredient. At this point, the vehicle traffic on Main street is so intense and congested it actually hurts all but the largest of stores such as our grocery outlets and fast food chains.

            Lets assume the bypass benefits the SDCE residents only. Are you proposing that the SDCE residents increase business on main street based on how the roads are currently designed? SDCE residents simply have a longer commute through dye/warnock/san vicente routes. Even though this route sucks the residents don't go north into town. If they do go into town, then they must have wanted to shop in the first place.

            The bypass would help a substantial amount of residents get to work and back home – that is it. The bypass is more likely to increase business on main street by allowing those who intend to shop an easier time getting around and if my commute is faster, I might have enough desire to go back out and shop after I get home.

            It is time to move Ramona out of the 1980's and into the current century!
            "Get busy living or get busy dying" – Shawshank Redemption

        • No to the bypass

          No Guest, one only needs to look at the responses and thumbs up and down to realize that silver surfers in the Estates have far more time to go on the local web site and push their own agenda than others do – nothing more.

          • Guest

            When somebody is lacking in objective facts to make an argument they simply resort to name calling and innuendo. Everybody in the Estates has more time and are silver surfers? Way to show your ignorance and detract from your argument.

  3. Joe Cahak

    Because Ramona Resident past surveys have shown a clear majority want the traffic relief. It will not impact downtown business much if at all and will improve traffic flow through Ramona. The Master Road Plan study and analysis showed this. The only ones throwing the hysteria about the loss of downtown are the few detractors of the south bypass hyping the issue to gain more support. They have more personal reasons for not wanting the traffic by their properties and certainly don't care what happens or the traffic impact elsewhere. They are not interested in community solutions, only personal relief. As usual, they don't even have the guts to show their real name. This vote down of the South Bypass is a real loss for this community and downtown. I hope the main RCPG sees through this and votes to keep the south bypass priority.

    • Ramona Resident

      So what you're saying then, Joe, is that your desires trump the desires of the people who will actually be affected by the bypass? Well isn't that mighty big of you!

      Of course you would support a different route that helped traffic flow and went through your back garden 100%, wouldn't you?

    • Joe Minervini

      What specific past surveys are you referring to / and how many people were surveyed ? Pls be specific.
      Joe Minervini

  4. Guest

    I think what Joe is saying is the desires of the vast majority of Ramona residents should trump the 50 or so standing in the way of progress. By your reasoning the interstate freeway system would have never been built.

  5. Joe Cahak

    Typical of many of the disgruntled few, Ramona Resident, you twist my words to try to make your point. I am saying the needs of the majority in the community should over weight the needs of the few. This is a vital resource the entire region around Ramona needs. If it made sense and I got a fair settlement, yes I would take it. The 2 on San Vicente Road that were offered buy-outs from the county were offered $185,000 for small strips of their land for the San Vicente road improvements and held for principle. They ended up only getting $15,000. They sure made a big point didn’t they?. So Ramona Resident, what are you saying? That your needs to prevent the road improvements for the majority trump the needs of the greater community. Selfish arrogant NIMBY, too typical of many in Ramona.

    I support this route because it is on the Federal Highway maps and is eligible for federal funding which no other routes qualify for. It also happens to be the only route that will have the least impact overall to the community at this time due to the lower level of occupied dwellings in the route. It is the only possible route left in Ramona. Next time Ramona Resident, how about putting a name to your comments and stand for your point by name.

    • Joe Minervini

      Joe, so you live in the Estates…..and it has always been the desire of you and a few other people in the Estates to have what they think is a shortcut to the Estates.
      You guys blew it years ago when the developers, the Watt family, developed the Estates….they made millions but didn't provide you all with easier access to your Estates. Sorry, but that still doesn't justify your ruining the quality of life of many Ramonans with your quest for a South Bypass. Please go put your efforts into moving immovable objects away from the road…..and maybe stick to what you know best…being an "engineer". I am looking forward to meeting you for a live debate…soon.

      • No to the bypass

        Hear hear!

        Estates residents chose to move to a suburban hell with some of the worst transport links known to man – now they can live with that decision. 100's of Ramona residents should not have their quiet and their property values ruined just because another group, who don't even live in the same town, are screaming and crying like little children about their awful choice.

  6. Joe Minervini

    Mr. Joe Cahak, I have never heard of a County Road being on a Federal Highway map for funding purposes. Joe, don’t be so rude to people expressing their views. You justify the Bypass Route because it has “the least impact overall to the community at this time due to the lower level of occupied dwellings in the route. It is the only possible route left….” Joe, why do you think we “few” moved out to Ramona ? We want to be in the Country, a Rural scene. Perhaps you may be losing some of the thousands of Ramonans you think are behind you. What about every Main Street business owner, every employee, every commercial property owner, every homeowner along the many-mile South Bypass Route ? Sounds to me that you are the “few. You and I need to have a public debate over this “Bypass” issue. How about Collier Park at 12 noon this Wed. or Thurs ? If it rains, we can sit under the big overhead cover. Joe Minervini, 619/204-0391 I’m one of hundreds of others who will have an industrial sized road go thru my backyard.

    • Mike

      You must have one hell of a backyard. Certainly if it is so vast you can cough up a few feet for the road. And technically speaking, once the road is built, the land it occupies wouldn't belong to you personally any longer. It is not as if you are going to open your backdoor slider and step out into the bike lane. Let's not exaggerate the compromises which will have to be made in order to get this done.

      • Joe Minervini

        Mike,
        What justification do you have, what merits do you see in the South bypass ?
        Perhaps you will debate me in public about what merits you see in the South Bypass….Cahak just wishes to make speeches sitting behind his keyboard. My phone # is 619/204-0391.

  7. diane

    What if you build a road and no one uses it?

    The bulk of the traffic taking a right hand turn off Hwy 67 and Dye are SDCE residents. The extended right hand turn laneproject that was just funded Hwy 67 and Dye means that the small portion of the Southern Bypass which cut into rural neighborhoods past Mussey does not have to be built. So take this portion of the Southern Bypass off the list.

    Next, we have the Dye Road straightening, not needed as well. The curves act as a self imposed stop sign of sorts and a round about. The straight line thru the beautiful solar plant means increased speeds and head ons. Take this one off the Southern Bypass List.

    Then there is the Ramona Street boondoggle. We have spent over 1million dollars to "study" this road and to no avail. By the way, why do we need the Ramona Street improvement? No response. Not one member of the RCPG has given a fact based statement as to why they need this road. Take this off the Southern Bypass List.

    Lastly, there is the is the largest part of the So Bypass which will service only weekend traffic going from Hwy 67 to Julien. Not SDCE traffic, not Ramona Traffic, just tourist traffic. And this is what is tearing thru Dye to Keyes Rd to Hwy 78. Why? This is EXACTLY the traffic that Main Street needs. Tourism. The rest of us get to Main Street via perpendicular roads that connect to Main easily enough. But why do you want to cut off someones business and ruin someones home ?

    To build a road because there are "funds" Really? This is a pretty low bar. To build just to build.

    Focus on what we need and plan for the growth. There is NO growth in this area. The growth will come from Cummings Ranch and Montecito Ranch.

  8. Joe Cahak

    Joe Minervini I was being derided for expressing my opinion on the matter. The fact is that route is on the Federal Highway map and is designated as such for federal funding. You not knowing this, is not surprising as you really don't know the facts on this matter. As far as debating you, ha! I'd rather chew glass. As for saying I am rude, shall we look at your rude behavior to nearly every RCPG member and bad behavior at so many RCPG and subcommittee meetings? We might also talk about how you "debate". That would be a stretch of the English language. I would not call the kettle black if I were you Joe Minervini. This matter is not over by a long shot.

  9. Guest

    At what point will Joe, Diane and the rest of the Dye Road residents realize that regardless of how many tantrums they throw or how loudly they scream the vast majority of Ramona residents are in favor of the southern bypass? We get it; you don't want it built. I wouldn't want that road running through my back yard either. The difference is I was careful about where I chose to buy my house. Even 40 years ago, Dye Road was used as a shortcut to San Vicente. SDCE was new, but intended to house well over 10,000 residents. Ramona Street extension was already planned. What did you think was going to happen?

    • Ramona Resident

      You keep screaming that the majority of Ramona wants this road like it's true, but it really isn't. I assume you can use a computer since you're posting here, so look at google maps and see how many properties would be affected by connecting San Vincente to the 78 – not just directly, in that they would lose land and/or have their houses demolished, but also being within earshot of a major road. If you look at this objectively, rather than blinded by your own desire to get to your SDCE McMansion a few minutes quicker, you will see that is a HUGE proportion of Ramona right there. Actual Ramona too, not some wannabe nouveau-riche addendum to it – SDCE is its own census designated area and as far as I'm concerned has no voice in Ramona proper anyway, because you don't live in it. I don't expect to have a say in how Poway runs their roads, or how SDCE manages theirs.

      Add in every business owner along Main Street who doesn't want this road and I don't think you have anywhere near the numbers you and Joe pretend to – this is a very long way from 50 loud voices like you try to portray it as.

      Now that actual Ramona residents are waking up to this road plan you're going to have it less and less your way I'm afraid – we might not have the same organizational ability right off the bat that people in HOA land do, but you can bet we're starting to awaken on this issue.

      • Guest

        Ramona Resident – why is it that you and Joe have to be condescending? Is it because you are on the wrong side of the argument? Is it because you are blinded by your NIMBY attitudes? You throw out accusations (my McMansion) without knowing anything. I have lived in Ramona for 40 years. I don't live in the Estates and I don't own a McMansion. So, maybe you should back off your myopic view of the world and consider the facts. A bypass from Hwy 67 to San Vicente would immensely help the traffic back up on Hwy 67 getting into town. If a simple merge off 67 and onto Dye Road were in place, instead of a traffic light at the current site, how could it not help traffic? Going further, the cost/benefits are still to be determined.

        I'm sorry that some of you would be affected by progress. You should have used one of those computers to see if there were plans in place that would impact your road. The majority of residents want this bypass. You can claim otherwise all you want, but the facts are the facts.

      • Joe Cahak

        Ramona Resident, who wishes to remain anonymous so as to not be personally criticized nor fact checked, you throw out some interesting BS. First off we are not screaming, we don’t need to, the facts about our roads speak for themselves. Your “facts” are not so much so. We have done surveys and gotten support levels for this several years back. Most in SDCEA do not own mansions and are not retired and MUST travel these roads daily and live or die with the road safety issues. Seems pretty divisive of you to say SDCEA is not part of Ramona and has no say in the issue. So much for you position not being arrogant, self-centered and ignorant. You side has repeatably made up facts, mis-stated facts and otherwise have gone out of your way to deceive Ramona about this road and it’s need to support your objection to it. Again you have not a single real solution or alternative to offer. The main thing we have heard from you is your hysterical call to all downtown businesses will end, yet you offer no proof or studies or real case examples to support you claim. We had 2 years worth of engineering analysis done during the Ramona Master Road Plan that looked at all aspects and the south bypass was the only plan to help and is now the only route possible as Main St can’t be widened and north bypass was rejected a few years ago by RCPG. Again no alternate plans.,

        • Hi Joe, you have mentioned a few times that the RCPG rejected the North Bypass. I recall that the Nature Conservancy stopped the North Bypass, but there may be events prior to that of which I am unaware. Can you elaborate?

          Thanks!

  10. Joe Cahak

    Well said guest. Throwing this road plan away will impact us all for the rest of our lives. Recall dear old Uncle Dutch threw Hwy 67 improvements away as RCPG chair with his unilateral action and cost us 20 years to get back on the plan for improvements. My Minervini's assertion is all hype and hysteria designed to work up the town business to voice against the road plan. The business will not suffer as he says. he designed the rhetoric just to get peoples attention and support. But he offers not a single solution to the problem. Keeping Main St as the only Highway route thru town means no traffic improvements ever. Caltrans has already told us they can do no more on Main St. it would only take removing about 30 trees to widen Main St, but of course the Tree Trust folks would come out of the woodwork to oppose that one. So what do we have left for solution? Nothing as the RCPG already threw away the North Bypass option, the only other route that had Federal Highway designation, meaning Federal funds could be made available. So what does Ramona majority want, that is the question? Go with Mr. Minervini and cripple the town and hope all growth stops (not likely) or belly up and fix the darn problem. We already learned we can't stop the growth. It violates State law and people's property rights. So do the few suffer so the majority have solutions, or do we stay as we are and cripple ourselves? Let us not forget the other victims, pedestrians who have been dying at the rate of 1-2 a year on average on OUR Main St. Is this a friendly village? I urge anyone that can, to come to tonights RCPG meeting to voice your concern about this. They have gathered their troops on their side, we need to show our support for the other side and back the RCPG folks who have to stand for the vote tonight.

    • Joe Minervini

      Cahak, your Uncle Dutch must’ve intimidated you immensely. A few years back,
      I worked hard to continue to point out to our RCPG that the intersection improvement at 67& Dye was not on their Top Road Priority List. I was on the first ad hoc committee to come up with a design to improve the subject intersection. I attended numerous meetings with CALTRANS & County DPW to urge the improvement.
      Where were you? All you want to do now is to express what a great idea you think the Bypass is but you won’t debate the issue in public, eyeball to eyeball with me or anyone else. All you want is a shortcut to your house in the Estates. You should’ve taken your longer commute time into account when you bought your house out there. Once again, explain how the bypass will help anyone…but be specific. If you had the courage to debate, that would be the first question I’d ask.

    • Guest

      I am glad there are reasonable people like you, Joe Cahak, to offset the blind selfishness of these Dye Road people. We all saw that they tried to stack the RCPG in the last election. It is like they think we're all a bunch of ignorant hicks who don't do our research. You are right – we are out of options because of ridiculous decisions made in the past. Newsflash to those opposed to progress – Ramona is not a small town anymore. We have 40,000 residents with an infrastructure designed to support a population half that size! Growth will not stop so we have to do something to accommodate it. If we don't our quality of life will decrease each and every year.

      It is as simple as this – is your commute along Hwy 67 and Main Street better or worse than it was 5 years ago? 10 years ago? Will killing off the southern bypass to San Vicente help congestion or make it worse over the next 5-10 years? Ramona has suffered enough at the hands of those who don't recognize that change comes whether or not we want it. Hopefully, we'll get it right this time and not give in to those who scream the loudest to protect their own self-interests at the cost of the rest of us.

      • No to the bypass

        It isn’t just Dye road though, is it? Seriously – go look at a satellite map of where the link from San Vincente to the 78 is planned to go, then come back and say this only affects a small number of people in Ramona. That is, quite simply, a lie.

        Joe Cahak and the SDCE residents want this for their own selfish reasons, and not for anything to do with the Ramona community.

        • Guest

          OK. READ what I said. There are two phases; one from Hwy 67 to San Vicente, the other from San Vicente back to Hwy 78. I very clearly stated support for Hwy 67 to San Vicente because there are very clear benefits.

          Joe Cahak may live in SDCE. He may have selfish reasons for wanting the bypass. The point is the bypass WILL reduce the traffic jam on Hwy 67 and will benefit the vast majority of Ramona residents. You can argue all you want but simple common sense tells anybody with an open mind that moving traffic onto a side road faster will alleviate traffic on the main highway.

  11. Joe Minervini

    For not wanting to debate me, Cahak sure has a lot to say.
    Cahak, send me a link where I can read the South bypass qualifies for Federal Funding.
    The reason I want to debate you is so we can put this to rest.

    ….and for all of you that don’t know, Cahak lives in the Estates….and he wants what he thinks is a shortcut to his house. He doesn’t care if his shortcut will impact businesses and homeowners. Truth is, the bypass will not shorten any ones commute time. Cahak should show me in public how it will shorten commute time. That’s why I want to debate him in public, so that I would have the opportunity to explain the Bypass would be a waste of money.

  12. Rochelle

    Oh my goodness, everyone. The best part about living in a small community is that we (hopefully) all want the best for each other, and the community as a whole. The improvement at 67/Dye/Highland Valley is approved, funded, and will start soon. That is going to provide a longer turn lane (maybe two? I'm not sure) for the folks turning right onto Dye and heading home to the Estates. Shouldn't we get that done, and see it any other roads need to be built, or whether that makes enough improvement to table the Dye St. extension through our neighbors' back yards? Makes sense to me…..

  13. Jane Tanaka MD

    Does the Ramona Community Planning Group have funds for surveys/polls prior to making these decisions? Is it really just the few people in opposition who all showed up at the meeting that had the greatest influence? Do the majority of Ramonans indeed support a Southern Bypass… or just a few vocal people who assume they speak for the majority?

    • I know the folks at Committee for a Better Ramona (not to be confused with Citizens for a Rural Ramona) have done a lot of polling, and I know they have made HWY 67 an area of focus in the past. I don't believe their polls were scientific, but I know they take great care to stay objective. It would be interesting to hear their perspective.

  14. Guest

    The problem is not everybody wants what's best for each other. A small, vocal group wants to outshout everybody else because they don't want this road built. They have even gone so far as to have a group of them run for RCPG and other offices to block the progress of this project and any other project that has to do with Dye Road/Ramona Street.

    I agree, the Hwy 67 improvement should help, but by building a bypass from Mussey Grade to Dye Road, cars coming off Hwy 67 will flow onto Dye Road better and faster and it will reduce the traffic jam back to Archie Moore. THAT will make Ramona a more desirable place to live and will INCREASE property values.

  15. Joe Cahak

    Mr Minervini it is not my job to either educate you on the facts of the road or change your opinion. You made it VERY clear you are not interested in other opinions. Recall my phone call to you 2 years ago to discuss the issues. You ended up being VERY derogatory to me and my opinion and I hung up on you. This and your self centered opinion is why you lost. I will not debate you now or ever. I have no desire to be bludgeoned again by you or your rude group. As to my opinion, I have one and a say in Ramona just like you and you cohorts. CFAR is the furthest thing from representing the community. I do not just dislike your hysterical methods with the business community, scaring them that they will lose all their business, I find it deceitful and dishonest. I specially resent “Ramona Resident’s” opine that we Estates residents should have no say in the matter and are not considered part of Ramona. This again made the real reason and position of your group quite clear.

    To Jane, Andrew Simmons and some of the Citizens for Ramona used their own funds and effort to do the survey. The response was quite large and the approval for all the road improvements was overwhelming. Perhaps we should do surveys more often.

    To the business of Ramona, I will still buy Ramona all I can and so will most everyone else. Forcing everyone thru Ramona will not bring you more business, as bypassing some of the traffic off Main St will not cause you to lose it all. This is a figment of Mr Minervini’s mind and his ploy to get your support. Unlike the residents who are effected by this, I read my property easements and understood them and the impact prior to signing to buy. Perhaps you should have done the same, instead of blaming and accusing everyone but yourself.

  16. Andrew

    Joe M., I think it would be fair to say that the community, and the Planning Group, has seen through your propaganda campaign with the South Bypass, which really have been road improvements on Dye Road to Warnock and San Vicente Road. You’ve tried to say that the road was about going through Keyes and giving people passing through Ramona an option to bypass this town. But, this project has never been about that. And frankly, do you think anyone headed to Julian or the Desert is going to take the circuitous route you describe as the route that puts Ramona business out of business? Most everyone uses GPS these days, and the fastest way through and out of Ramona (which is traversed every day now) is straight through Ramona.

    Perhaps you should have stated that the Dye Road extension will intersect the backyard edge of your property, which would have been noted on your deed when you purchased the property. If your realtor did not disclose it, that’s an issue you have between the title company and yourself, but not the community. Ultimately, you’re putting financial gain ahead of public safety, and that is unconscionable.

    I’m sure you’ll bluster about, just as you have with Joe and myself, demanding debates and what not, but there really is no point, as I have pointed out to you in the past. Just in case you want to disparage, my name is Andrew Simmons. I’m the former Chair of Transportation and Trails for the Ramona Planning Group, and a former Planning Group member, and community volunteer. I’ve also been a resident here for 20 years, which makes me still a Newbie by Angus Tobiason’s definition, but proud to be up here and a part of the community. That may not mean much to you, but for those that have been here awhile, they’ll understand. It’s being part of the community.

    You might try it, by the way – being a member of the community. We understand you made a mistake when you bought your property, and didn’t fully understand the definition of an IOD, but your naivety does not make it right to endanger the lives of those people who are ALSO a part of Ramona – the SDCE – and have a right to safe passage through our community. Being a member means participating in community groups, being active in the things that benefit ALL of us, not just yourself.

    For the record, Joe, I’m not a contractor or benefit in any way for the construction; I’m not a resident of the SDCE nor do I live on your street. I’m just a citizen of Ramona, all of Ramona, which includes the SDCE.

    • Ramona Resident

      How can you say lies like that without even a hint of shame? The southern bypass is EXACTLY about putting a major road down Keyes (plus Amigos, and others), and the plans for this road are publicly available to anybody who cares to look for them on the San Diego county website. There's even a clue in the name – Ramona Southern Bypass – as in bypassing Ramona, via a southern route.

      You should be ashamed of yourself for writing such obvious and disgusting lies to try and push your own agenda.

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